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Post by Atrahasis on Apr 5, 2007 13:37:10 GMT -5
IMHO, it could have 3 or as many as 5 on one wingtip turret.
There's the main barrel, then on the outboard are two barrels that look very likely to be guns. On the inboard there seems to be a disc with two little nubs facing forward.
If we take advantage of this, the BOP can finally get armament in the game that makes it a design that lasts 80+ years into TNG.
The main barrel should be a disruptor. The two outboard should be 2 X ph1. The two inboard should be 2 X ph3.
That brings us to two disruptors, 4 X ph1 for backup, and 4 X ph3 for ADD. The inboard guns, since they are on a disc, even look like they can rotate aft, which means they would get FARA arc.
This means that you'd need 10 power points free every turn for the weapons to charge. If we assume this ship has a .33 movement ratio and can go to max combat speed it would need 10 warp engine points for movement. Plus I think 1pt from anywhere would power the shields and life support. Plus 1 pt from the impulse to go to speed 31. Total 22 pts.
If we say it has 2 impulse pts, then the single warp engine would have to be 20. Is that too much for a ship this size?
Comments?
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Post by CaptainPierce on Apr 5, 2007 17:07:41 GMT -5
What I did in an HW mod once was give the "B'rel" one cannon on each wingtip and the "K'vort" two on each wingtip. Was always going to have the modeller tweak the model accordingly, but never got the chance...  |
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Post by parislordagain on Apr 7, 2007 11:00:33 GMT -5
If you happened to watch the Star Trek Property Auction at Christie's, there was a very close look at the B'rel model from STIII as they were crating it up. The main canon has two barrels and there are two smaller barrel-like structures outboard. Didn't notice anything inboard, though. "Nubs" sounds more like attitude jets to me, though.
I had been going with 1 x Dis3 and 2 x Ph-2, myself.
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Post by Atrahasis on Apr 7, 2007 11:13:16 GMT -5
If you happened to watch the Star Trek Property Auction at Christie's, there was a very close look at the B'rel model from STIII as they were crating it up. The main canon has two barrels and there are two smaller barrel-like structures outboard. Didn't notice anything inboard, though. "Nubs" sounds more like attitude jets to me, though. I had been going with 1 x Dis3 and 2 x Ph-2, myself. My problem is that for a BOP to be a properly functioning warship, it needs something that can fire to the aft, so either the outboard cannons or the disc/nubs need to be able to revolve turret-like. Also, the main cannon seems to have only one "holed" barrel...the smaller spike-thing under it does not seem to have a hole. I could be mistaken on that however. |
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Post by zerosnark on Apr 7, 2007 11:36:46 GMT -5
The BOP is not a proper functioning warship. It is too small!
As a gunboat. . . who needs rear guns? I never tried to fly one of these. I would suggest putting on a pair of PH-G's, with a FH arc. That should strike some fear into opponents. But would also emphasize the short range nature of the weapons. And the flat out vulnerability of the wing mounts.
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Post by Atrahasis on Apr 7, 2007 12:03:31 GMT -5
It just doesn't make sense for the Klingons to make a lame ship that can't fire to the aft, and to have that design survive for 80 years...We should be able to feel the usefulness of the BOP in game, but speccing it with only 2 fwd arc guns leaves you wanting.
On the other hand, if you take a look at the actual model they used, you get the sense that each wingtip was designed to be a weapons battery comprised of several different gun systems.
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Post by WickedZombie45 on Apr 7, 2007 13:32:52 GMT -5
I got the impression from the model that those other barrel-like aspects were part of the targeting system, especially since the ends are sealed. The other exposed components are most likely just parts of the main gun assembly since there isn't a lot of room in the wingtips to mount them internally. Granted, there's never been any evidence as to just what those various components are (aside from the blasts coming from the obvious main barrel) so in SFB/SFC terms they could easily be setup as additional weapons of some sort. You would, however, have to contend with a ship like that having a heavy forward barrage.
I also doubt the gun can rotate down very far (or at all) since that 'handlebar' greeble at the back is lined up with the cannon and would prevent any major movement. There is a hinge at the base of the barrel that lets the gun rotate from side to side, though. Whether or not even that is functional on the original model is hard to say since in all the appearances the guns seemed to be in their fixed positions - with 20+ years of mileage, they should've twitched a little by now.
As for the ship itself being a functional warship, it really depends on what chief role it was meant to serve. I'd say a ship like the BoP was more of a first-strike/hit-and-run type ship and would have probably worked in groups (much like how they were shown in TNG and DS9). The Klingons probably opted for more power in less guns than more guns with less power, especially for such a small ship. Cramming a torp launcher, warp drive, impulse engines, shields and living quarters into a single hull is already pushing things.
I don't know about the 23rd century version, but at least one instance on DS9 had a bird firing aft disruptors from the central hull though it wasn't clear exactly where the fire was coming from. There are plenty of greebles and obscure hull details on the ship that could be anything so it's really up to one's own personal judgment.
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Post by Atrahasis on Apr 7, 2007 14:33:22 GMT -5
I got the impression from the model that those other barrel-like aspects were part of the targeting system, especially since the ends are sealed. Sensors there would make a lot of sense since the ship is a Scout, but looking at the pre-production concept drawing makes me think that they could very well be guns. Regardez-vous:  The guns that are apparently on turrets in this pic seem to have ended up being the inboard disc/nub structure that I spoke of or the double-barrel outboard assembly, moreover the structure in the pic looks like it can probably quite easily rotate aft. Such a small ship having such a feature would be better than putting in an extra weapon in the hull that is dedicated to firing aft. |
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Post by CaptainPierce on Apr 7, 2007 15:30:54 GMT -5
Well, back in the days when it was just a 12-man scout ship as originally intended, it didn't really need aft weapons, because the theory would have been that it was small and maneuverable enough to bring its weapons to bear. Based on everything I see in the Ex Astris gallery of the BoP, I just can't imagine the ship as seen rotating the weapons a full 180 degrees in any direction... |
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Post by Atrahasis on Apr 7, 2007 15:56:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the reference!
Those pics seem to indicate to me that each wingtip has 4 barrels. There may not be anything on the inboard, but those outboard barrels sure look like guns to me. There's a chance that it may be able to revolve 180 if the entire turret pops a little ways up, which may explain why the inboard is a disc...basically a nut for the revolving mechanism.
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Post by Atrahasis on Apr 7, 2007 16:07:10 GMT -5
If you happened to watch the Star Trek Property Auction at Christie's, there was a very close look at the B'rel model from STIII as they were crating it up. The main canon has two barrels and there are two smaller barrel-like structures outboard. Didn't notice anything inboard, though. "Nubs" sounds more like attitude jets to me, though. I had been going with 1 x Dis3 and 2 x Ph-2, myself. That's an interesting choice...why Ph2 over Ph1? |
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Post by parislordagain on Apr 7, 2007 16:28:43 GMT -5
I use that model for the E-3/4/5 K+ varients which contain (per SFB) 2 x PH-1 in the fwd-firing arcs. I didn't want too much fire-power in an escort, but I didn't want to be stuck with the short-range of the Ph-3, either...
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Post by Klingon Fanatic on Apr 8, 2007 18:22:38 GMT -5
Just an oddball comment: pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/object/800/800811/690246boxart_160w.jpgI have the Nintendo DS Star Trek Tactical Assault game and the cover shows a BOP with what looks like impulse engines on the interior of the BOPs guns... As a TMP era game it blatantly does things like add D-6/7 engines to a Vorcha which looks awful IMHO. KF |
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Post by CaptainPierce on Apr 8, 2007 18:52:55 GMT -5
Yeah, well, we are talking about the people who gave us "Legacy," with a TMP Constitution that they were proud couldn't fire to the left or right even though we saw it doing just that in the very TWOK battle that they were trying to emulate!  |
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Post by Atrahasis on Apr 8, 2007 18:57:37 GMT -5
LOL Frackin' Legacy. Stupidity like that just pisses me off. ;D
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