|
|
Post by USS Mariner on Dec 23, 2004 11:32:46 GMT -5
Don't know if this is the right place to put artwork like this, but here goes... I recently went to the local Borders near here to get a combo set of the TNG Movie Sketchbook and the Star Trek sketchbook. Looking at the sketches in the former, I have really seen just how much the quality of Star Trek's creative ability began to go downhill back then. This just isn't about the storyline of First Contact (which kind of stinks really, as it could've been a much tighter film and more consistent in lots of places, as well as having some neat sequences cut out of the film and the script,) but mostly the ships and set designs. The biggest flop, besides the Phoenix, is the Enterprise-E. Looking at the original concepts for the Enterprise-E, I noticed that John Eaves had begun to create a very interesting blend of Galaxy and Intrepid class design attributes, resulting in a halfway completed (IMO) concept ship that looked very promising. Berman and Herman Zimmerman liked it, but Fritz Zimmerman opened his mouth and said that the ship "looked like a turkey in a pan," which, from the top view, it did. This wasn't so much of a problem as what Eaves did to the ship afterward. Instead of fattening up the "wishbone" pylons and the "drumstick" nacelles, he instead butchered the entire back end and removed any former flowing curves and replaced them with the beginnings of the ultra edgy, über-k3wl ships most younger Trek fans (my age, who gre up with Voyager and DS9, though I really got into TNG  start desiging on their own. Ofcourse, this is probably because he hadn't seen an episode of TNG before he started working on Generations a year or so earlier (his first TNG communicator design was a futuristic version of the TOS flip-phones! That's how out-of-the-loop he was back then!) Looking at the rest of the film, I'm really tempted to try and rework the thing on my own (script and all), first with the Enterprise-E herself. If you want to see most of the originals design phase, go check out Hobbes' Federation Starship Datalink page, which was mostly constructed using my own issue and scanner.  Designing the Enterprise-EThe "Turk-E" I'm reffering to is the image "dee-4" and probably dee-5 aswell. That is the basis of my refit, though the final ship does give me a guidline of what to avoid/not avoid. My most recent draft of the sketch is here, which was created using 1/4 inch gid graph paper, my two hands, mechanical and normal pencils, very nice Staedler erasers, and decals made in MSWord. Any more of my work that you want to see is located in the Subspace Commns Network topic, "The Mariner Portfolio". Enjoy and ask away if you want to learn something about my works. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Atrahasis on Dec 23, 2004 11:48:57 GMT -5
Yeah, and don't forget that they had to make adjustments to the Ent-E for Nemesis, like raise the level of the warps and some other details. The deisgn is not very satisfactory to me, probably because it is a bit too low to have a commanding presence for me. The TOS/TMP ships looked tall. So did the Galaxy, but that ship had other dimension problems. The Ent-E however, is very flat, and when I see long and flat I can't help but think of snakes or aligators, creatures that crawl on their bellies.
The Ent-E looks like it's crawling on its belly.
You know what's more non-sensical? The Ent-J has a rounded sideways ellipsoid saucer like the Galaxy's and is presumably a much larger ship than the Ent-E. Which raises the question: Does the Ent-E's saucer really have to be that shape? Moreover that oblong pointy saucer that the Ent-E has just doesn't do it for me, although I do understand theoretically why they made it like that...to give it the appearance of being fast even when it's staying still. Maybe that would've worked better if they had made the ship look taller somehow and not like a belly-crawler, because belly-crawlers are slow. I can't believe nobody caught onto this on the design team.
|
|
|
|
Post by USS Mariner on Dec 23, 2004 11:53:21 GMT -5
Yeah, and don't forget that they had to make adjustments to the Ent-E for Nemesis, like raise the level of the warps and some other details. The deisgn is not very satisfactory to me, probably because it is a bit too low to have a commanding presence for me. The TOS/TMP ships looked tall. So did the Galaxy, but that ship had other dimension problems. The Ent-E however, is very flat, and when I see long and flat I can't help but think of snakes or aligators, creatures that crawl on their bellies. The Ent-E looks like it's crawling on its belly. You know what's more non-sensical? The Ent-J has a rounded sideways ellipsoid saucer like the Galaxy's and is presumably a much larger ship than the Ent-E. That oblong pointy saucer that the Ent-E has just doesn't do it for me, although I do understand theoretically why they made it like that...to give it the appearance of being fast even when it's staying still. Maybe that would've worked better if they had made the ship look taller somehow and not like a belly-crawler, because belly-crawlers are slow. I can't believe nobody caught onto this on the design team. To me, the orientation of the saucer is not an issue, since we've seen flying bricks and all sorts of "space nuts" fly at whatever speed they like. I just like the oblong saucer because I think the longer profile is a good change, but not necessarily a permanent one for starship asthetics. The Ent-J itself is a cobbled together piece of fanboy nuts in an otherwise great ENT episode. Any comments on my design? NOTE: Do you REALLY have to replace sh1t with nuts? In many cases that's just...wrong. And aren't you a patron of free speech and thinking anyway? |
|
|
|
Post by Atrahasis on Dec 23, 2004 12:14:42 GMT -5
LOL, yeah I was trying to figure out how to turn OFF the censored words option. The censors have now been removed, swear away (in good taste).
Goddamn censorship! ;D
As for your design, it's kind of hard to judge without a profile view, but personally I don't think the "swept-in" pylons make any ship look good, because it makes the ship look like it's hunching its shoulders, like a person who doesn't know anything or is indecisive.
I think if you want to design anything well, you have to keep a theme in mind. Is it going to be a battleship? Then you should probably keep the themes of toughness or beefiness in mind. Is it going to be a diplomatic ship? Then it should probably exude a certain amount of grace and elegance, therefore keep those themes in mind. There are some design elements that I feel can detract from the overall theme you might want to present, and often these details are very subtle and have to be thought about. Likewise, other details can really bring out the theme you have in mind.
The E is not exclusively a Borg Fighter, imo, it is also used for exploration when not fighting the Borg (which is most of the time). It's classified as a large explorer, after all. It's also used for first contact and diplomacy, as we saw in the films.
For those reasons, I feel the E should be designed so that it gives a very appealing first impression, friendly yet impressively representing the Flagship. Details that would detract from that are excessive beefiness, because then the ship ends up looking like a hamburger, and the Federation is not all about fast food. The warp engines you have there, for that reaosn, seem a bit beefy to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by USS Mariner on Dec 23, 2004 12:58:13 GMT -5
LOL, yeah I was trying to figure out how to turn OFF the censored words option. The censors have now been removed, swear away (in good taste). Goddamn censorship! ;D As for your design, it's kind of hard to judge without a profile view, but personally I don't think the "swept-in" pylons make any ship look good, because it makes the ship look like it's hunching its shoulders, like a person who doesn't know anything or is indecisive. I think if you want to design anything well, you have to keep a theme in mind. Is it going to be a battleship? Then you should probably keep the themes of toughness or beefiness in mind. Is it going to be a diplomatic ship? Then it should probably exude a certain amount of grace and elegance, therefore keep those themes in mind. There are some design elements that I feel can detract from the overall theme you might want to present, and often these details are very subtle and have to be thought about. Likewise, other details can really bring out the theme you have in mind. The E is not exclusively a Borg Fighter, imo, it is also used for exploration when not fighting the Borg (which is most of the time). It's classified as a large explorer, after all. It's also used for first contact and diplomacy, as we saw in the films. For those reasons, I feel the E should be designed so that it gives a very appealing first impression, friendly yet impressively representing the Flagship. Details that would detract from that are excessive beefiness, because then the ship ends up looking like a hamburger, and the Federation is not all about fast food. The warp engines you have there, for that reaosn, seem a bit beefy to me. Theme-designing is ususally what I do, though that may help in some areas. The swept in pylons are probably a bit thick, though the Galaxy has them and it's fine looking IMO (then again, it's pylons go backward and them foreward again.) I like them better than the wimpy ones the E-E has currently. The beefiness of the warp engines is probably because they are going to be horzontal ovals similar to the Galaxy's, though they're going to be wider in front and then narrow. I'll be working on it for an hour, then going to to some work around the house for Christmas, but post any opinions you have about my ship, or the ships from First Contact in general that you'd like to see fixed. |
|
|
|
Post by USS Mariner on Dec 24, 2004 22:49:23 GMT -5
Well, here's a revised draft, based on your suggestions about the pylons (forward swept is okay, just not for the flagship, atleast not in this century ,) and other things. Though I must say, although the nacelles might bit "solid," I like them as they are now. Just looks cool to me.  scn.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/,s,17910131,a,ga,ul,36010593763,ic,Y/turke3b.JPG |
|
|
|
Post by Atrahasis on Dec 25, 2004 6:21:12 GMT -5
Hey, that's pretty good!
It already looks more decisive and faster.
Here's another suggestion, but by no means do you have to take it too seriouslY: Have you considered putting in an interconnecting dorsal? I realize that for the Intrepid design and onwards there were none, but it may make the ship look taller. The "flat look" was basically an Intrepid theme, and that ship was designed to not be a flagship but rather a fast scout kind of craft.
Why do we admire tall things? We just do. They command more presence. That's why the tallest people on Wall Street get promoted faster and make the most money. It's all psychological. The Flagship I think would benefit from that psychological edge. No matter how well it can fight, it's best weapon is ways to stop a fight before it even begins.
|
|
start desiging on their own. Ofcourse, this is probably because he hadn't seen an episode of TNG before he started working on Generations a year or so earlier (his first TNG communicator design was a futuristic version of the TOS flip-phones! That's how out-of-the-loop he was back then!)
Hey buds, join 4shared now!