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Post by Atrahasis on May 8, 2009 11:13:13 GMT -5
OK, true fans saw it on opening night, so we can talk about it all we want here. What does the ship have, about 30 guns on the saucer alone? Are there any references on it yet? And have you picked up the toys?
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Post by zerosnark on May 8, 2009 12:04:12 GMT -5
Hmmm. Any odds of this movie revitalizing the game?
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Post by StressPuppy on May 8, 2009 19:38:24 GMT -5
Yup i was skeptical about the TOS Enterprise redesign, and the way overused time travel plot, but i said i would give it a chance.. I am now glad i did. This film is freaking GOOD!
Sure it has its awkward, and some bad points (what movie doesnt), but overall the good far outweigh the bad here.
Some minor bad points while trying to be as spoiler free as possible....
Neros character is not properly developed. Just about a minute, or 2 of backstory as to why he went on a non TOS Romulan empire sanctioned rampage. The Narada itself is an ordinary Romulan civilian mining ship from the 24th century (yet it is armed to the teeth with missile weapons. I guess for defense against pirates). Any military ship from the TNG era could easily destroy it with just a few torpedoes. It was never meant for time travel, and i wont go over how it got to the early 23rd century. Lets just say it was an "accident".
General Ayel's character was totally unnecessary, and the movie could have easily been made without him. He has such a small role. Especially being that the Narada was a Civilian mining vessel. Why was a romulan general taking orders from a civilian mining ship captain? The rest of the romulans are just cannon fodder.
I hate the new "engine room". It is a redress of an industrial building, and it shows... BADLY.
Romulans popping out of the hatches of a space born drilling rig. It just seemed silly.
Civilian romulan attire looks like they went to the trenchcoat school of columbine.
The good...
The new characters fit nicely into the movie without having to "mimic" the old characters. I found Karl Urbans mccoy to be a little too spot on. He doesnt have to imitate deforest kelly to a tee. Though he did have some good lines in the movie.
Quintos Spock... Spot on, and he is the only character i expected to be spot on. Though Quintos spock is far more emotional than Nimoy's spock (with very good reason).
Pines Kirk.. He definitely is no Shatner, but here that is a good thing. No long shatner pauses. No "We... Got To.... MISTER!!" Pines character had a shaky start, but transforms into the shoot 1st, and ask questions later kirk we all know, and love without all the camp.
The rest of the crews development was brief, but they had their moments. You can only put so much into a 2 hour movie.
The FX were awesome without going overboard on the flash and explosions like we all expected it would. Everything there was just done right. Anyone check out the new Klingon D-7's in the kobiyashi maru test? They looked like ktingas with vorcha nacelles.
The new big-e was a major turn off when i 1st saw pictures of it. Being that this is an alternate reality, and many things have changed due to neros tampering. The new ship fits right in. The only things i dont like are the big ass window for a view screen, and its industrial building (right down to the concrete floor) engine room.
Time travel plot yes, Reboot yes, but it was all done with the kind of thought, and imagination that the former trek powers that be since Gene Roddenbury seemed to lack in every aspect. This is a very well done movie, and it managed to keep the "Classic Trek" feel.
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Post by Kana on May 11, 2009 13:28:31 GMT -5
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Post by Atrahasis on May 13, 2009 0:49:14 GMT -5
Yup i was skeptical about the TOS Enterprise redesign, and the way overused time travel plot, but i said i would give it a chance.. I am now glad i did. This film is freaking GOOD! Sure it has its awkward, and some bad points (what movie doesnt), but overall the good far outweigh the bad here. Some minor bad points while trying to be as spoiler free as possible.... Neros character is not properly developed. Just about a minute, or 2 of backstory as to why he went on a non TOS Romulan empire sanctioned rampage. The Narada itself is an ordinary Romulan civilian mining ship from the 24th century (yet it is armed to the teeth with missile weapons. I guess for defense against pirates). Any military ship from the TNG era could easily destroy it with just a few torpedoes. It was never meant for time travel, and i wont go over how it got to the early 23rd century. Lets just say it was an "accident". Yeah but check out the Star Trek: Countdown comics that explain the backstory...I haven't read Star Trek comics for freakin YEARS but I knew I had to pick these up. I wanna know what the deal was with all the WATER. Even if things ran on the messy kind of fusion down there that produces a bit of neutrons, there are probably better ways to shield against it than using water...like graphite and other more sophisticated materials. But I assume there must be a reason....maybe the water is not used for shielding at all since it was labelled "inert reactant". React with what? You don't use water for fusion. Maybe it's used to create fusion-usable hydrogen on board, plus lots of oxygen? I'm waiting for the scientific explanation for this one. Yeah, u know we finally have an explanation as to why it was only Kirk all those years who ever called him "Bones", and nobody else did. It was an inside joke between them. Frak me....I need references!!! Now!!!! One thing I can quibble with is this: Why does a ship that was constructed in the year 2255 (I think that was the year) have the same nacelle style as the Kelvin which was extant 2233? Unless I'm very much mistaken that the two ships share the nacelle design. And notice that they bumped up the 1701's birthdate to that late date, it is no longer 2242 (or 2220 if you like TAS). Therefore the "original" 1701 design may still be around in this new universe, it's just that the Enterprise that we got this time around was a later more advanced incarnation. They even got the Stardates correct! Kirk was 25 years old by the end of the movie (year 2258), but of course that means he got captaincy a hell of a lot earlier than in the previous universe (2264-5). I particularly liked Checkov, though he didn't join the cast till season 2 ("Catspaw"). By the way, can someone give me Max 3.1? After my laptop got wiped twice I've lost it...but don't worry, 100% of the models are safe.
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Post by Atrahasis on May 13, 2009 1:06:46 GMT -5
Yes, I've checked out the nacelles more closely now, they are different! So I guess I have no quibbles at all.
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Post by straightwong on May 15, 2009 14:29:13 GMT -5
I thought the film was more "THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS Part 6" (even down to the music or lack thereof) then a STAR TREK film as there was always a chase going on and things were always crashing. My big issues were: a. TARDIS effect? - in inside of the shuttle and engineering spaces were far bigger than their outsides -- particularly the warehouse being used for engineering b. everyone's in Starfleet Academy at the same time? - in the series there was a 24 year age difference between Checkov (22) and McCoy (~46) with Kirk and Spock being in their mid-30s - but here they are, all in school at the same time??? c. "George Kirk saves 800 people (on the Kelvin?) in his X mins of command" - so the Kelvin holds twice as many people as the TOS Enterprise? The Enterprise, a larger ship, however, has no problem being run by a small crew of cadets. d. the civilian Rommie mining ship easily wipes out fleets of warships?? - like a supertanker attacking and easily defeating Nelson's fleet?? - are you kidding? e. when danger calls you outfit all your (empty?) ships with cadet crews with no "adult" supervision (OK.. there was one adult but he left the ship at the first opportunity)? Who has fleets of empty ships? f. all of the Academy cadets have permanent ranks in school? except Kirk?? but he is promoted over them (from "cadet" to "Captain" - a zillion step promotion???) after one mission? despite having mutinied against his captain during that mission? ? Maybe because he's the least mature character in the film? Other than that it was OK
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Post by straightwing on May 15, 2009 14:47:40 GMT -5
Actually they might have gotten the "zillion step promotion" from STAR BLAZERS where in true anime fashion Derek Wildstar was "deep selected" to be captain from the beginning but was initially assigned as the ship's second cook to teach him "humility". Even Derek Wildstar was not promoted after a single battle/ mission, however.
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Post by Atrahasis on May 16, 2009 1:34:35 GMT -5
HAHA I love Starblazers. You're right, it was a mighty fast promotion, and the ranking system for cadets and people in the academy needs to be explained. But maybe since a lot of the fleet got wiped out (I think they said 7 ships), crew and all, the only thing to do was to make a new crew from the selection of cadets...but of course the best cadets. Field promotions, I guess? And as for why the Rom miner was so powerful, I'm still tracking down the comic issues that are supposed to explain it. I think the Remans had something to do with that though. As for the Kelvin, it wasn't a crew of 800, it was a crew of X and their families which totalled 800 people. I always felt that large saucer hull could easily fit more than all the 430 of the TOS ship, probably surpassing 1000. As for Nero, any ideas on why he didn't simply try to contact his homeworld back in 2233 or whatever time he found himself in, and warn them about the supernova? Wouldn't that have created an alternate-alternate universe?
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Post by Atrahasis on May 16, 2009 1:36:38 GMT -5
Can no one supply me with Max 3.1? Pretty please?
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Bernard Guignard
Commodore
TreknoGraphx Cad Schematics are our Speciality
Posts: 342
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Post by Bernard Guignard on May 18, 2009 7:56:22 GMT -5
I saw the new film yesterday and while I enjoyed it.
I'm still don't like some of the design paths they took for the Enterprise. Pretty much agree with Stresspuppy on his points. but one thing I did notice was the TOS Arrow head on the Kelvin Crew I'm putting this one down to Picard's interference with Cochrane and the development of the series Enterprise.
I enjoyed the character moments but didn't care much for the I-mac bridge, and Engineeing sets.
Design wise I did like the Kelvin in terms of looking like a Pre TOS ship and its Homage to Franz Joseph in having a single engine I would have liked to have seen the other ships in the fleet closer up. For me I'd give it a 7 out of 10
Hey Atra if I had a copy of 3d studio max 3.1 you'd have got it all I've got is Gmax
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Post by straightwing on May 18, 2009 14:53:30 GMT -5
Relative to the size of the new shuttle, it appeared to get larger inside every time someone entered one and its internal dimensions always far exceeded it's external dimensions.
As for it's external dimensions, I believe the TOS shuttle was calculated years ago to be 29' long [8.84m]. (It was supposed to be only 24' long but people kept pointing out that if it were that small, Spock couldn't stand erect in it like he did in THE GALILEO 7 !) As for the new shuttle, Berndt did his "window-sizing/ shuttle-vs-people sizing comparisons" and calculated that it had to be around 14m or almost TWICE as long as the TOS shuttle - roughly the size of a regulation school bus.
This is good since it looked like something less than 20 shuttles evacuated the 800 (* cough *) people on the KELVIN which would say that each shuttle would have to have carried 40+ people (and we saw that one shuttle really only had Kirk's mom and delivery crew in it so the other 30 odd people had to find another shuttle to escape in).
On the topic of Kirk's family, since his mom seems to have no other kids around when she gives birth to him as his father is getting killed, things look rather bleak for Sam Kirk, his ELDER BROTHER whom we saw in the TOS episode OPERATION ANNIHILATE...
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Post by norsehound on May 19, 2009 1:15:48 GMT -5
The way I saw it, Nero's appearance altered the development of Starship design. Had Nero not pasted the Kelvin, that ship and all things aboard (props, costumes) would have evolved into what we saw in "The Cage". Essentially, Kelvin stands in place of the "Baton Rouge" series of ships. After all, someone kitbashed a "Kelvinprise" on Deviantart and it looks a lot more like the original connie than the Movie 1701.
Now that I think about it, has anyone compared the Kelvin to the Destroyat?
With this big bad monster of unknown origin out there (and maybe with the Klingons having their hands on it, from a cut scene where Klingons seize the Narada), the Federation accelerates their shipbuilding program and R&D for weapons and technology. The result is 1701, second of the Constitution class and new flagship of the Federation (since presumably Constitution was a testbed vessel). Most of the Fed fleet you see warping out of Starbase appears to be kitbashed from Kelvin components. Won't know for certain until the DVD, though it might interest some that there was at least one three-nacelled ship among the force that left.
And if you go hunting around the official Startrek site, looking for an Entry under 'Federation', there's a still of the starbase with all the ships docked. Enterprise is visible in the upper right.
A haphazard guess on the water is that it is used in place of deuterium for matter-anti-matter reaction. Though mercifully they cut down on the technobabble, I hope this new trek still recognizes that M/AM is the way of the future, and that's what powers Starships.
The thing about promotions is that all of the cadets had just graduated with commissions- it had to be rushed because starships at port needed extra hands. Enterprise and her staff (cadets and ensigns as they were) performed admirably and had to receive some kind of commendation. As it is, we know Kirk, Bones and Uhura were cadets, but everyone else might as well have commissions already in starfleet and either bumped up in rank or retained their already elevated positions. Scotty probably had a full commission that was reinstated in the crisis, for example.
Supposedly Narada cut through the Fed fleet like a hot knife through butter because she is future romulan technology enhanced by salvaged Borg tech... or so the prequel comic states.
Enterprise herself has a mix of TOS and TMP armaments. The phasers on the saucer are arranged in TMP style (6 paired banks, 3 on the top and 3 on the underside), and fire in red pulses. Photorps come from the same place as the TMP launcher, but fire white instead of red (purists would shout this is the same effect for quantum torpedoes, but I don't care). I'd also guess there's an aft torpedo launcher in the same curve where Excelsior's other shuttlebay is located. Haven't seen it fire, but I thought I saw barrels there.
I've seen the movie twice... would like to see it again. Personally I liked the change of the Engine room... though the visible Concrete still arches my eyebrow, the design looks much more the part of a ship's engine room than the previous series' "Carpeting around the glowing Rod". The engine rooms look complex, dangerous, and easily accessed by engineers. The way it should be.
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Post by straightwing on May 21, 2009 15:01:02 GMT -5
Given that the Narada looks a lot like the huge REPLICATOR (now called "Milky Way Replicators") SHIP from STARGATE SG-1 flying backwards, maybe Abrams was basing STAR TREK XI on the wrong TV show. (It happens -- years ago Marty Feldman made a parody called "The Last Remake of Beau Geste" and couldn't understand why none of the jokes worked like he wanted them to. When he took the time to study the problem, he found out that the old film he was remembering when he made the film was not "Beau Geste" at all, but rather "The Four Feathers".)
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Post by Kana on May 22, 2009 9:49:16 GMT -5
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